Trained retrieve string?

[Randy]

Would someone tell me how to tie the string you use to pull on the
dog's toe for doing a trained retrieve. I need to know if you just
loop the string around the toe or do you just tie a knot. I know that
the string needs to come lose quickly after the dog grabs the buck.

Thanks for any help.

[Ken McDaniel]

Randy,
Start by tying a clove hitch on the dogs leg, then a single hitch around the middle toes. Some people use duck tape around the leg and extra things like that - but if you have a little knot right at the end of your string so the clove hitch won't slip, you'll be just fine.
Ken McDaniel

----- Original Message -----
From: Randy
Newsgroups: rec.hunting.dogs
To: GUNDOG-***@listserv.tamu.edu
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 9:20 AM
Subject: Trained retrieve string?



Would someone tell me how to tie the string you use to pull on the
dog's toe for doing a trained retrieve. I need to know if you just
loop the string around the toe or do you just tie a knot. I know that
the string needs to come lose quickly after the dog grabs the buck.

Thanks for any help.

[Steve Wagle]

The "string around the toes" method is a very cruel, inefficient and potentially harmful method of training the retrieve. I would find some other way to do it.

The ear pinch method is not a whole lot better, but it is preferable, as you at least have control of the dog's head with this method and the training should go faster.

With the toe pinch method you need a third hand to control the dog's head and if he chooses not to take the dummy and avoid it, there is nothing you can do about it.

With the ear pinch method, you can make the dog's choice a lot more clear to him.

I actually don't use any forced method of retrieve anymore and have gone completely to cookie training for retrieving. It takes MUCH longer, but the results are better and I and the dog end up much happier.




Steve Wagle
The Checkcord-Upland Hunting and Bird Dog Ezine
http://www.thecheckcord.com/
http://www.heartlandfishandgame.com



---------------------------------
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[Ken McDaniel]

Steve, Glad you made that post. I feel pretty much the same about the toe pinch method, but instead of starting a big controversy on the issue, figured to just explain how the string was rigged up. It might be that I am the only one that is ignorant to the cookie method - but would like to hear more and maybe others here would also appreciate it. I probably would never use it - I'm just not a "treat" trainer, but would like to know about it just the same.
Aside from the reasons you mentioned about "not" using the toe pinch method, I have found another flaw in the method. Re-enforcement in training later on. I think because of this, most "teachers" now go to the ear pinch from the toe pinch. I have found that the ear pinch will get it done, so why go through double torture?
Ken

----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Wagle
Newsgroups: rec.hunting.dogs
To: GUNDOG-***@listserv.tamu.edu
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 9:07 AM
Subject: Re: Trained retrieve string?



The "string around the toes" method is a very cruel, inefficient and potentially harmful method of training the retrieve. I would find some other way to do it.

The ear pinch method is not a whole lot better, but it is preferable, as you at least have control of the dog's head with this method and the training should go faster.

With the toe pinch method you need a third hand to control the dog's head and if he chooses not to take the dummy and avoid it, there is nothing you can do about it.

With the ear pinch method, you can make the dog's choice a lot more clear to him.

I actually don't use any forced method of retrieve anymore and have gone completely to cookie training for retrieving. It takes MUCH longer, but the results are better and I and the dog end up much happier.




Steve Wagle
The Checkcord-Upland Hunting and Bird Dog Ezine
http://www.thecheckcord.com/
http://www.heartlandfishandgame.com



---------------------------------
Love cheap thrills? Enjoy PC-to-Phone calls to 30+ countries for just 2¢/min with Yahoo! Messenger with Voice.

[Bill Corcoran]

The toe hitch works when used properly- on a table. It is not the first
method of pressure used, the ear pinch would be. Pressure is started after the
dog is taught how to escape the pressure. Pressure is not applied for them
to secretively have to figure it out. Look at force fetch table designs, the
dog is restrained. FF is not primarily to teach them to retrieve and deliver
to hand, any monkey can condition a dog to that especially one with adequate
drive. FF is to teach the dog to deal and work through various types of
pressure. Which will make field work successful. If you are wanting a VERY
basic meat dog then you can cookie bone the FF. If you want an accomplished
retriever in the field weither it be in competition or in the blind then seek
professional guidance and get the force fetch done correctly. A successful FF
program is about 6-8 weeks of Hold on the table, walking hold, FF on the
table, FF on the ground, aggravated FF and stick fetch. When the force fetch
cannot be broken you have done well.

To answer the original question. Tie a knot at the end of parachute cord,
do not use a very small sting as this will cut the toes. Loop the cord around
the leg above the ankle and tuck knot under the loops. The knot will help
it hang and stay put. With the remanding string twist slightly to for loop
with the free end toward the dog. Place the loop around the two middle toes.
The cord should not come off the toes as you should release pressure with the
smallest amount of effort, but do not let go. Very little movement on your
part the better. At first do not wait for the dog to complete the task to
release the pressure when, but be ready to continue pressure if he does not
follow through. When you say fetch give the dog 1-2 seconds before applying
pressure (do not say fetch again). You are giving him a window to jump into for
success. Again this about teaching pressure! When we get cookie bone dogs
in training they cannot accept corrections in the field without bolting,
returning to the handler or hiding. This is unacceptable behavior and the force
fetch has to be redone, even 2-3 year old dogs can be taught with a do-over.
Good luck and if you need to buy a toe hitch we have some with leather
handles for sale.

Kelli Corcoran _www.heritage-kennels.com_ (http://www.heritage-kennels.com)